History, politics, people of Oly WA

Category: top two (Page 1 of 2)

Who wants a general election challenge (from HA)

Back in the day David Goldstein didn’t like the Top Two primary, though he probably still doesn’t:

Supporters of the top-two primary, like Sec. of State Sam Reed, keep arguing that it offers voters more choice. Well, in the 36th LD, the district highlighted in the article, voters will be given the choice this November between a progressive Democrat and a liberal Democrat.

That quotes makes an interesting contrast to today’s post from Goldstein on challenging sitting Seattle legislative Dems from the left:

The irony is, we all know there’s a fair share of deadwood in the Seattle delegation, along with a handful legislators who simply aren’t as progressive as their constituents on a number of important issues, such as pay day lending, the homebuyers bill of rights, tax restructuring, and more. Indeed, start this conversation at nearly any political gathering, and the same names keep popping up again and again, the usual suspects of Democratic incumbents who deserve a serious, well-financed primary challenge, and who just might not survive should they face one.

A primary challenge is one thing. In the old days of actual party-based primaries a well healed incumbent could slap down an insurgent in September, well before the actual public discussion ever got going. And, with the primary in August now, the debate is even shorter in duration.

Most Democrats from Seattle, once they got past the primary, were able to coast through to November with token opposition from a Republican or maybe a Green. But now, a serious progressive insurgent Dem could challenge a sitting moderate Democrat all the way until November, pushing the discussion harder and actually giving voters in liberal Seattle districts a real choice from within the party.

I’m surprised Goldstein hasn’t seen this utility of the Top Two and is still calling for “primary” challenges, when it is really unlikely that a challenging Dem to totally knock off a sitting legislator in August.

Hey, lookee here, Top Two didn’t hurt parties in swing districts

Kari from Blue Oregon pokes a nice big hole in one of the main arguments in the Top Two primary, that a major party could be “aced out” (boy I love that term this morning) in a swing district:

The argument goes something like this: In a top-two primary, situations would arise in which districts that are usually closely divided between the Democrats and Republicans could wind up with a general election featuring two candidates from the same party – effectively wiping out the other party’s “right” to contest a close seat in the November election. Presumably, that situation could arise with four (or more) candidates tightly bunched together — say Donnie Democrat 26%, Lucy Liberal 25%, Ralph Republican 24%, Connie Conservative 23%. And while the Democrats combined for only 51% of the vote, they would get 100% of the spots in the general election (acing out the GOP.)

But here’s the thing: In Washington’s inaugural top-two primary, across 124 separate legislative races, that didn’t happen a single time. In fact, in every single swing district, the top two candidates were one Democrat and one Republican.

Read his entire post, its well worth your time.

Also, given the weird situation with Halvorson, Romero and whatever the Republican’s name was, this “swing districts will still elect a Republican and a Democrat” theory holds water.

Halvorson not in the Top Two?

UPDATE: From this, it looks like there are about 10,000 more ballots to count, so maybe Halvorson isn’t sunk yet. Too damn close for someone who spent that much though.

Wow. Have to say the surprise of the night so far is Jon Halvorson seemingly packing his bags early from the county commissioners race.

I think everyone sort of assume that it would be Halvorson and Romero facing off in November and the nominally funded Republican and Independent would head home. But, despite spending the most of any candidate ($39,000) and raising the most ($51,000) it just goes to show that money isn’t everything.

County Commissioner District No. 2
Vote for One 1
Sandra Romero . . . . . . . . . 3,885 31.49
Robin Edmondson . . . . . . . . 3,792 30.74
Jon W. Halvorson . . . . . . . . 3,245 26.31
Bill Pilkey. . . . . . . . . . 1,059 8.58
Lucius Daye. . . . . . . . . . 342 2.77
WRITE-IN. . . . . . . . . . . 13 .11
Total . . . . . . . . . 12,336

Just a few thoughts:

1. Halvorson was running for a really long time. If memory serves, he announced in February of 2007, even before most city council candidates had gotten on the ground. Were people just tired of him?

2. He was endorsed by the local builders and well-liked by other local conservatives, but he failed to get the nomination of the local Dem party. I don’t think this had anything to do with it exactly, but…

3. Despite fears by some that Thurston County would be the prototypical “Top Two” locality with two Dems in the running in November, maybe voters really do sort themselves by party.

You have to admit that with the endorsement of the builders, Halvorson was cutting to the right of Romero. Maybe voters who wanted to vote for a more conservative candidate just couldn’t bring themselves to vote for someone who preferred Democrat?

Maybe Halvorson was just plain bad at spending his money and people just voted the labels and Romero just did a plain better job getting her name out to people who vote the Democratic label. I think that’s likely.

Another reason I don’t feel bad for third parties in the Top Two

More on this:

Twenty seven legislative candidates are running unopposed this year.

Down by 12 from the all time high of 39 two years ago, but still a weirdly high number for people interested in healthy democracy. And, I would assume that anyone who would give their time to a third party would be someone interested in a healthy democracy.

If you’re a member or a leader of a third party, and you think the Top Two primary hurts your organization because it forces you off the November ballot, look at the 27 seats where there will only be one candidate in November (hell, one candidate in August).

Then, ask yourself why your party didn’t file a candidate in that district.

Why isn’t there a minor party candidate in LD 22?

Another thought about the Top Two is Killing minor party thing: In a district like mine, LD 22, we have only elected Democrats since the 1980s. So, we’re pretty liberal and only a Dem has a chance.

So, as a Green why not try to relegate the Republicans to “third party” status by filing against one of the three established Dem candidates? This year, one Democrat and one Republican filed against the three sitting legislatures.

Say in that race against sitting legislator, Sam Hunt (Dem) and challenger Don Crawford, a Green Party member were to file. Hunt is pretty well funded ($54,000+ raised) and Crawford isn’t (no contributions, just over $800 spent).

If a Green could raise just a bit of money (say $10,000) they could win the primary, and then who knows what happens in the general.

And, maybe they were thinking of doing this, just didn’t have the chance. From the notes of the local Green Party’s most recent retreat:

The Top Two Primary has some advantages we can learn to exploit

And, hey check it out, former Olympia city councilmember TJ Johnson is an officer of the local Greens too.

The Top Two primary won’t kill third parties

Because you can’t kill something deader than dead.

Political divisions in the state senate. Click for larger version.

The problem with the minor parties’ argument that the Top Two primary hurts their chances is that a minor party candidate hasn’t been elected to the state legislature since the 1920s. While you could blame that on the original primary system, that system still advanced one member of each party to the general ballot, which is what they’re complaining the Top Two doesn’t necessarily do.

What changed in the 1920s to hurt minor parties was the designation by the state of “minor and major” parties. Because major parties get the gift of state paid for organizational elections (PCO elections) every two years, they have a built in grass roots advantage over minor parties.

There’s easy access to the machinery of major parties through becoming a PCO, and because they’re required by state law, most legislative districts and counties have local major party organizations. Minor parties, not so much.

It would be better for the minor party folks to worry less about getting candidates to a November ballot where they’re going to lose anyway, and worry more about the structural and organizational benefits major parties enjoy.

KUOW: Will The Top Two Primary Kill Third Parties?
Seattle Times: Third parties say top-two primary hurts their chances

Andrew on: Freedom of association and Top Two primary

Andrew from Redmond writes:

Listen, Sam, you and your best pals at the Grange created this big mess. You’ve opened the floodgates to confusion, mischief, and trickery by turning the primary into the first act of a general election where people can use the descriptor to say almost anything they like about themselves.

You have destroyed the integrity of our primary, which is supposed to enable grassroots participation – allowing a greater number of Washingtonians to join in the selection of the party nominees.


(he did the bolding)

So, if we want to allow “a great number of Washingtonians to join in the selection of party nominees,” why did we hold a caucus for the presidential nominee?

LDs rebel and another party thought

Amen brothers:

The 36th District Executive board met last Thursday and decided that the use of a handful of PCOs, some of whom were appointed, was too undemocratic a way to choose a party nominee when there were so many thousands of people interested in the political process this cycle.

Interesting note on the role of parties:

And state law does not allow nominations or endorsements by interest groups, political action committees, political parties, labor unions, editorial boards or other private organizations to be printed on the ballot.

Up until now, political parties have served a quasi-public role in elections. While they were private organizations with free association rights, the nominees that they chose appeared on the general election ballot. But, now the secretary of state has put them with other private organizations that are involved in elections.

Sandra Romero nominated by Thurston County Democrats

Sandra Romero was nominated earlier tonight by a vote of 77 to 63. Its a sham and a shame, but its something we do now.

I got there late, but here are my notes from tonight. I’ll hopefully get some time tomorrow to distill my thoughts down. Ignore the typos please:

Turns out I wasn’t too late, walked in about 7:30 and John Cusick was still getting through the “why exactly we’re doing this again?”

Guy Hoyle Dobson made a valient effort. Weird, I usually disagree with anything Guy has to say, but he made the point of the weird difference between a nomination and an endorsment.

Another lady named Virginia, a PCO, made the point that the state party shouldn’t be telling us what to do. We made a resolution from the floor that we wouldn’t endorse before the primary during the convention and now it looks like we’re going the other way.

Commissioner district 1, Cathy Wolfe nominated by acclimation. I tried to vote no, but it went quicker than I expected.

A few minutes of clearing up everyone in District 2 had the right colored cards. That’s how we do credentials in Thurston County, you lift up a different colored card depending on whether you’re a PCO, member (and for tonight) where you live. Second district PCOs have blue cards, District 1, pink and PCOs, smaller green cards. So, to keep that straight, I have a pink and green card. The people seeing the real action tonight have blue (district 2) and green (PCOs).

One of the things we didn’t really talk about tonight is that someone else could have (theoretically speaking) stood up and stolen the nomination from Cathy, Sandra and John.

John Halvorson talks first. “Who’s ready to vote Democrat!?!?” Yeaaaah says everyone. Then he goes into a pretty basic schpeal:

He’s experienced, he’s been elected before, he’s lived here a long time. Almost every county official in this courthouse has endorsed me.

Sandra and I like each other today, we’ll like each other tomorrow and tomorrow we’ll still be Democrats.

Romero speaks second.

Legislative experience, working in the joint Transportation committee. We need more than roads, we need alternatives.

We need to make sure we don’t become everywhere else USA. This is why I support Sandra, she worked so hard with the livable Thurston Campaign. She isn’t just running on experience or who she knows, but rather what exactly she’s going to do.

Circle name and sign on the back. Not a secret ballot.

Ironically, Fred Finn got the real endorsement/nomination whatever of the Thurston County Democrats by getting campaign services.

Sandra wins the nomination. What was the vote?

I want to thank both candidates for putting up with this rushed and unanticipated thing we had to do tonight.

We voted not to report the vote.

What’s likely going to happen tonight (Thurston County Dems nominating mess/sham)

Olympian, PolitickerWA, and Politics is a blood sport are all writing about this incredibly cynical mess.

Though PIABS says the Olympian does a good job explaining things, Brad Shannon actually trips up at a few places:

Halvorson and Romero both say they’ll abide by the results and do the best they can. And later, if both survive the primary to meet in the general election, both can seek the formal endorsement of the local party. If I understand this right, both could be endorsed.

Thurston County Democrats don’t endorse. Though we do nominate (for some reason) we don’t endorse anyone. We do offer campaign services, and often times (even in non-partisan races) we offer campaign services (which could mean money) to more than one candidate in the same race, but we don’t endorse.

He did get this part right:

Last month, the U.S. Supreme Court let that primary become the law — while allowing for future challenges of the runoff primary system if political parties can show voters are confused or parties are damaged.

And that’s what this crazy nomination process is all about: preserving party standing to sue if they don’t like the results after the Aug. 19 primary.

We’re doing this tonight not for the sake of democracy, but to sue. We could have done the right thing, but we’re not.

So, what we’re going to end up doing is nominating either Halvorson or Romero. And that candidate will not actually gain much in the nomination. Probably, though, the public reaction to the nomination will damage the winner more than the loser.

I’ll be voting in the District 1 nominating election and will vote no (though we only have one choice) simply because I don’t like what’s going on.

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