Olympia Time

History, politics, people of Oly WA

Category: meta sports (Page 4 of 5)

Dave Zirin doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about Re: Sonics

November 19, 2007 / / 0 Comments

Zirin in the PI:

Municipalization means turning the Sonics into a public utility; call it a kind word for expropriation. Basketball fans should press the state of Washington to sue for the right to buy the team back from Clay and his cronies. They should claim that the Sonics and Storm are the intellectual property — the eminent domain — of the people of Seattle, and therefore the city has far more of a claim on the team than the Bennetts of Oklahoma.

The Sonics should get their new arena, but instead of the proceeds going to build another wing on Bennett Manor, the funds would go to rebuilding the city’s health care and educational infrastructure.

Imagine seeing someone wearing a Kevin Durant jersey on the street and knowing that instead of draining the tax base of a city, it was paying for new textbooks in a public school classroom.

Does this seem far-fetched? Ask the city of Green Bay, where the beloved Packers are actually publicly owned. They are the only publicly owned team in the United States. It’s time to add to that list.

This is bigger than the Sonics. This is about drawing a line against the subsidizing of stadiums by which public monies are delivered to private hands. No more Mr. Flannel-Shirted Nice Guy. The Sonics stay in Seattle. They belonged to the Emerald City long before they belonged to Clay Bennett.

1. The Green Bay Packers aren’t the panacea that people always point to in these situations. They are a private company in a league with revenue sharing. They aren’t, as Mr. Zirin writes, owned by the city of Green Bay. They are public in about the same sense that Microsoft is public, they both sell shares to anyone who wants to buy. They are a for profit company owned by 40,000 share holders (who can own as many as 200 shares).

Yes, they’re a great example of fans having a hand in the team, but they are a far far cry from actual city owned teams like (until recently) the Harrisburg Senators.

2. Who is to say that the NBA would put up with that level of insolence? The NBA, and other leagues like it, aren’t straight up businesses. The courts don’t consider what they do “commerce” so they’re able to take part in anti-competitive tactics, like simply taking Seattle’s team away.

“Fine, don’t like how we manage our league? We’re leaving.”

All of the above isn’t to say that I hope the Sonics stay and that the NBA sucks. But, I’m thinking its more likely that the NBA is ripe for competition if they leave Seattle.

Who’s to say another ABA won’t show up?

“Barcelona model” not actually Barca and socis

November 15, 2007 / / 0 Comments

Just a short note, even though I’m excited about the selling of memberships of the new Seattle MLS team and the prospect of that actually giving fans a voice in the team, it doesn’t seem likely to me that anyone outside of Drew Carey, Joe Roth, Andrian Hauner and Paul Allen will actually own a stake in the team.

It won’t actually be a fan-owned team like FC United of Manchester, Yokohama F.C., or the Green Bay Packers.

In the Barcelona example, over 150,000 individuals, through the payment of yearly dues, own the Football Club Barcelona. Even though we’ll pay dues to the Seattle club, we won’t be owners. Any powers we have can be revoked by the owners.

Fan owned Seattle MLS?

November 13, 2007 / / 0 Comments

Goal Seattle:

Details were not made clear, but Carey was sold on the idea when Roth told him Seattle MLS would like to use ‘the Barcelona model’ of letting fans own part of the club and have voting shares. I am sure we’ll hear more about that soon.

Seattle PI:

And here’s another radical idea: Fans will be able to buy membership in the team, which will give them the power to vote out the general manager. That, too, came from Carey

Greg Roth on BigSoccer:

One of his stipuations is that the fans will own a small piece of the team very much like the current FC Barcelona model. The fans will have the opportunity to become members of the club. Fans can pay in (an mount to be detrmined). In return, fans would get T Shirts, discounts on tickets, special events etc. Every 4 years the fans or club members will have a vote on who should be the team chairman.

The Sounders would be the only major league team, outside of the famed Green Bay Packers, that have turned over any portion of the team to the fans.

List of Fan Owned Teams

In some ways, the way this entire thing is turning out, with the MLS coming to Seattle, with the announcement that the team will, in part, be fan owned, seems strange to me. While on one hand we have this caustic drama with the Sonics that is sapping the souls of any basketball fan in Seattle.

On the other hand, we have this hope-filled world opening up. Feels good.

What about other options regarding basketball in Seattle?

November 6, 2007 / / 0 Comments

From the PI:

We’re Seattle — we have options. We could pursue the Golden Baseball League model and form an independent basketball league, or, better yet, a league of smaller basketball teams. There are other sports to consider, like, say, hockey. It doesn’t have to be a National Hockey League team — how about supporting the existing Western Hockey League? If this is about keeping arena seats filled and giving people who love sports something to enjoy, then we could do worse.

The problem with the hockey thing, especially the WHL Thunderbirds, is that they’re already leaving Seattle. Not to say we couldn’t draw another minor league hockey team to Key Arena and have a great local derby between Everett/Seattle/Kent, but that’s going off in another direction.

I love this idea of a competing winter basketball league. Unlike baseball, and to some extent hockey, there is no organization top-to-bottom in basketball. All of the independent basketball leagues in the United States operate independently from the NBA.

List of minor league basketball leagues

Since the ABA merged with the NBA in the 70s, there has been little competition with top flight basketball in the United States. Taking the opportunity now to compete, I could see putting into play a handful of things that would strike at the heart of sports over here.

A new basketball league (or rather system) could involved promotion/relegation where good teams go up and bad teams down. In this way, you could invite teams from existing leagues to compete.

Community ownership could also play a role. The NHL supposedly played with this idea a few years ago, but outside of the Green Bay Packers and some other minor league teams, it is untried. Ask any fan if they’d buy stock in their team though.

Also, is it totally necessary to have a t.v. contract? This doomed the ABA… so, for now, despite internet and all that, I guess it does.

Is King County going to fund a rebuild on the Sonics Arena (and build a stadium for a new MLS team?)

October 31, 2007 / / 0 Comments

I came across this last night:

There have definitely been closed-door meetings involving Seattle city officials about a new basket ball arena in Seattle Center. The idea of also having Memorial Stadium (the ugly thing in the above picture), remodeled, renovated or rebuilt, is a possibility. A Seattle MLS team playing there is one option, and there’s been a rumor that Bob Whitsitt would be interested in putting a lacrosse team there as well.

But, no matter how many closed door sessions the city has, it can’t actually do what by law it is prevented to do: Seattle can’t spend money on Key Arena if it helps the Sonics.

But, King County can. And who recently presented a “vision for Seattle Center?” Ron Sims, the county executive. Yeah, it got the official cold shoulder from the city, but if there are closed door meetings, there might also be closed door reactions.

Sims even put the funding portion of his idea onto paper:

Sims floated legislation in Olympia that would have allowed the county to use hotel-motel and other taxes for a new Sonics arena, plus a redevelopment of Seattle Center and any other “civic amenities” deemed worthy by the county. The legislation would have raised $1 billion for those purposes over 25 years.

In terms of the popularity of sports team subsidies in King County vs. Seattle, remember that the Qwest Field initiative never would have passed without King County. It also might be easier to squeeze through a rebuild of Key Arena to a county-wide electorate if its wrapped around a broader revamping of Seattle Center.

Fan owned Sonics

October 5, 2007 / / 0 Comments

False info from Save Our Sonics:

Q. Let’s buy the teams and have public ownership.


A. False: The situation in Green Bay is unique in sports. Leagues have rules to prevent it from happening again.

With NBA teams suffering operating losses it is imposible for a team to exist owned by the people in a city. Here, of course, it’s even worse because the City of Seattle can’t find the money to fix potholes, much less cover the operating losses of an NBA team.

Owners like Howard Shultz recover their losses when they sell the teams and that defeats the purpose of public ownership.

Of course that again assumes that the new owner would consider selling and that isn’t apt to happen.

Actually, the Green Bay Packers aren’t owned by the city of Green Bay, but rather individual stock owners. And, while every major sports league in the United States ban non-profit or government ownership of teams, only the NFL bans corporate ownership to prevent stock sales of teams.

But, the NBA totally allows stock ownership systems. Both the Boston Celtics and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

So, what’s stopping anyone from filing a corporation with the Secretary of State’s office and selling stock to try to buy the Sonics. Nothing at all.

How the Huskies are different from the Sonics (or how professional sports should be)

October 1, 2007 / / 0 Comments

There are two discussions going on in Washington about building new sports facilities.

One, we’ve all pretty much heard about. The out-of-town owners of the Sonics have asked for $300 million of public money for a new $400 million arena outside of downtown Seattle. Seems like an impossible request, so now they’re working on packing up the team to some other location.

The other, we’ve just now started hearing about it, and unless you pay very close attention, you probably won’t. The University of Washington athletic department is starting the drum beat for major renovations of Husky Stadium. The cost may rise to around $600 million.

Here’s the irony of the situation. In no way imaginable are the Sonics a public entity, yet they were seeking mostly public money for their venture. The Husky football team can only be considered part of a public entity, yet I’d expect that the renovation of Husky Stadium will be mostly funded through private donations.

While the conversation on funding is only getting started for Husky Stadium, the one list of possible funding sources includes:

Officials aren’t ruling out any method of fundraising, including premium seating, ticket surcharges and possibly even selling corporate naming rights to the stadium.

I’ve also heard the term “passing the hat.” Even though the University of Washington is a public entity, what you aren’t seeing is an automitic expectation of a request for public funds.

The difference being is that the Huskies have hundreds of well-off boosters who under the right circumstances would be willing to donate money to the cause. While the Sonics would need to find investors, people who’d want a return on their money, to find private money for an arena, the Huskies just need people who are willing to donate, the only expectation is winning.

There are answers though:
Sports Stadium Madness: Why It Started, How to Stop It
Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust: Funding and Investment
…supporter involvement in clubs is good for clubs as well as fans.

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